Transcript 0:00 Hey, welcome back to The Big Book Deep Dive here on Progress and Perfection. You can find more information on our website. You can contact us. All the links for that will be in the description below. My name is Amon. 0:10 I'm joined by my good friend, John. Here we go. Okay, so the, the top of the passage we're visiting today, if we can answer to our satisfaction- Yeah... what are we answering? Should we look back and see- Yeah, so-... 0:26 what the questions are we're answering? So we, we just were told to basically, "Hey, go home, post fifth step. Go home, take down the book, look at the," uh, what page is it? 0:39 Wherever the 12 steps are, the start- Mm-hmm... of chapter five. Right. Look through the 12 steps. Look at the first five that we've done so far, 0:47 uh, the, the biggie, the fourth and fifth step that we just finished doing, and, and see if we can, see if we've left anything out. Mm-hmm. 0:55 Uh, specifically on our fifth step, I guess, and then just in general, you know, are, are we being thorough here? Have we really done a third step, turned our will? Just revisiting one, two, three, four, five. Mm-hmm. 1:06 And then we get up here to... And there's a couple prayers in there that, that it talks about, and then we get up into the step six. If we can say, "Yeah, we're good- Yeah... 1:16 we're not skimping, hadn't left crap out we should talk to our sponsor about," you know, pick up the phone after having just left him, and, "Oh, yeah. Well, I did do X, Y, Z." Then, then we say... 1:30 Now, I'll just read this top paragraph again. Yeah. "If we can answer to our satisfaction, we look at step six. We've emphasized willingness as being indispensable. 1:41 Are we now ready to let God remove from us all the things which we have admitted are objectionable? Can He now take them all, every one? 1:51 If we still cling to something we will not let go, we ask God to help us be willing." All right? That's step six in the big book. Right. That's all we got, like- Right... written, written stuff. Right. 2:06 Step six is we're entirely ready to have God remove these defects of character, and we've just gotten done, over here in our fifth step, going through, presumably, all our- Mm-hmm... defects of character. Right. Right. 2:17 Um, so six, interesting that it's such a short one, and we talk about it in meetings a lot of times. Mm-hmm. 2:24 You know, just kind of the history of this book, this is a piece I know, that hey, when they wrote this, when Bill M- wrote this, they had, you know, what, average of a year, maybe 18 months of sober time. 2:37 So pretty freaking fresh, right? Right. They're kind of in that pink cloud high time of, "This is working." Mm-hmm. "It's actually working. It's sticking." Right. And it was. Right. 2:46 [laughs] But I don't think they knew what to say about six and seven. Yeah. They recognized the significant piece here to pull out- Mm-hmm... and kind of extrapolate- Mm-hmm... 2:58 uh, of, of this willingness being like it's a step in and of itself. But they r- they really didn't say much about it here. What does that, so what does that mean? 3:08 [clears throat] What does it mean that they didn't say much about it? Well, the, the second piece of that- Mm-hmm... I pulled down my 12- Mm-hmm... and 12 book before you got here. Mm-hmm. 3:17 This was written, and I, I should have Googled the exact timeframe, but it was written when they had 10 plus years, I believe. Mm-hmm. 3:24 So they had a lot more just physical sober time and experience from themselves and other members. Yeah. Um, and, and so there is more to be said about it, and perhaps when we finish our [chuckles] 3:39 slow tro- uh, trudge through the big book, we can look at some of- Mm-hmm... this literature, 'cause it's, it's rich. Yeah. Um, it's really rich. And, um, 3:50 uh, but, but to answer your question, I, I think it's, it's important to look at step six, it was for them- Mm-hmm... and to say, "Hey," 4:00 kind of like this hour period of time we're put in after the fifth step of really doing some soul-searching, dedicated soul-searching. Mm-hmm. Let's make sure that we're thorough. Right. And now let's make sure, 4:12 hey, if, if we're actually in the process of changing- Mm-hmm... if we've invited God in to change us, now we've confessed these things that we hadn't told some of them to anybody before- Mm-hmm... 4:25 to another human, and we've pointed out where in this f- that fourth column where we were at fault with some of the shit we were holding onto. Right. Okay. Now we're gonna... L- like this is another crossroads. Mm-hmm. 4:41 Are we gonna actually let God change us? Right. Or are we gonna buck up against that? Mm-hmm. And the, the piece in the book that I just read, that paragraph is, hey, if we're not willing, we ask God to help us- Mm... 4:56 be willing. Mm-hmm. And then it kinda goes on, as we'll read in a minute, into just, okay, step seven- Right... let's go. Right. 5:03 Uh, it talks more in 12 and 12 in this literature of, hey, this separates the boys from the men. Mm. This is a big deal. Like, we, we don't want to act like 5:16 we can attain perfection, but it's kinda what I've been getting at with this progress and perfection stuff. But we do need to seek it. Hmm. We need, we do need to recognize that there is an ideal. 5:27 Some of it we may have crafted for ourself for the first time. Right. Like we talked about sex relations. What's our ideal going to be going forward with relationships? Right. 5:37 And hopefully God is our guide and our guidepost in that. But are we going to actually be willing enough to start taking steps- Mm... in that direction? Why would you, why would I not be willing 5:50 to have God remove my defects of character? Well, let's just look at some obvious, um, and maybe the, this might be a stretch to call- Language defects of character. 'Cause, you know, y'all hear us. 6:04 We're cussing every now and then. But take that to the extreme- Mm-hmm... and say, you know, you just have a filthy mouth, and you recognize that this is actually harmful to myself, others, and my God. Mm-hmm. 6:17 And it's standing in the way of a certain level of growth. And I use that 'cause that was, that's, I've, I've wrestled with that at various periods. Sure. Cleaned up, [laughs] to, to PG-13 levels, right? Right, right. 6:32 You know what I mean? Right. Um, but I, there are levels to some of this stuff. Sure. So it can be more attractive to hang on to something like that. Mm-hmm. And that's easy, an easy example- Mm-hmm... 6:45 because a lot of times it doesn't really hurt anything. Mm-hmm. A lot of times it's kind of social gray ground. Uh, it can actually be an asset personality-wise, humor-wise, stuff like that. 6:58 Not really gonna make or break my sobriety. It's not gonna get me drunk. But I think to the boys, separating the boys from the men- Mm-hmm... the girls from the women- Mm-hmm... 7:08 it may be separating me from what God has in store for me. Mm-hmm. It may be myself holding me back. Yeah, yep. How did you, how did you know what your defects of character were? 7:23 'Cause, like, the one you're just saying there isn't selfishness, self-centeredness, um, the ones that are listed in the book. So how do you stumble upon this realization of what your character defects actually are? 7:36 Well, you, you should have done some, some discussion with your sponsor in the fifth step about that. And I would offer that there's some selfishness in the example I gave even. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 7:48 Um, you know, and some inconsiderateness- Mm-hmm... of, well, if I, if I'm not this way, if I don't act this way, people aren't gonna like me. Mm-hmm. I'm just lying to myself. Yeah. Dishonesty too right there. 7:59 Yeah, yeah. Um, so part of fourth, fifth step- Mm-hmm... and then 10th step on a daily basis is learning how to do exactly that. Right. It has been for me- Mm-hmm... of, of identifying 8:12 kind of the deeper roots of seemingly mundane things- Mm... in my life. Right. And, and that's a process, man. I mean- Right... it, it's not like we're gonna be... And it speaks to that big time in 12 and 12. Mm-hmm. 8:25 It's not like we're gonna recognize them all immediately, get rid of them all, or have Him take them all immediately. Right. It's a, it's the onion analogy of, of- Mm... 8:36 of constantly peeling back the onion to the next layer. Right. Right. Yeah, I think the... Well said. I think the thing that I would add to that, um, something we used to 8:50 work towards when I worked at the, in the IOP clinic, was identification of character defects. Maybe, like you were saying, maybe the headers are selfishness, self-centeredness- Mm-hmm... 9:00 the dishonesty, those types of things, but maybe getting a little bit more nuanced in terms of, like, how does that manifest in your own life? Like stubbornness- Yeah... or callousness. 9:10 You know, getting a little bit more specific to it. Yeah. Um, 9:15 but one of the cool things that we would do, it's kind of like if you get rid of these character defects, you create a void, so we need something to fill that void up with. And sure, like, God fills the void, 9:28 but it was interesting, 'cause what we could do is create character assets- Hmm... out of the character defects. 9:34 So for instance, to use the stubborn one, if I identify stubbornness as a character defect, okay, how did it also work as a strength? Or how can it also work as a strength? Um, resiliency, perseverance. 9:48 Like, as drug addicts, these are amazing qualities and characteristics that- Yeah... we have. You know, a willingness to suffer, doing hard things. Absolutely those were things that worked against us, 10:00 um, when we were using, but in sobriety, I think it can be important to, like, begin to pull out these positive characteristics that we do possess. Mm-hmm. 10:09 You know, it's almost like removing the dark cloud that dampens your life experience so that the Lord can shine, 10:17 uh, the light onto the things that make you you and unique in His eyes and, and, like, able to do kingdom work. Um, so yeah, just well put on your part. 10:29 Just something to add there, um, that I think it's important to acknowledge once you clear out that dark space- Hmm... that something positive can be present. 10:39 Yeah, a- and that's a good way to put it too, because what we're doing in fifth step is basically puking up, regurgitating a bunch of things, and then straight on the tail end of that, we're kind of feeling empty. Right. 10:52 And now we're gonna be asking God to actually empty us the rest of the way. Mm-hmm. Um, and so for sure there's gotta be, there's gotta be some light to shine in there. Mm-hmm. Something to, to fill that. Mm-hmm. Yep. 11:06 Good. Um, do you wanna hop straight into seven or you want me to read a little passage here out of, uh, six? Do we wanna hit this any harder than we have already? I say jump to seven, man. Let's do it. Jump to seven. 11:22 Like you said, that'll give us, maybe that's the next book we- Yeah... venture into. Yeah, 'cause I am afraid... 11:27 Uh, and, and folks, if you haven't picked up a 12 and 12, it's, like I said, it's rich, rich with, uh, just extrapolating more info on each step. And then the traditions too. Right. So there's 12 steps, 12 traditions. 11:40 Um- Standard literature too- Yeah... I think for most, uh- It is... AA groups. It is. But if, if I start reading it, it's, I'm probably gonna go down a rabbit hole. [laughs] Yeah. All right, second paragraph, 76. 11:52 "When ready, we say something like this." So another suggested prayer. "My Creator, I'm now willing that you should have all of me, good and bad." 12:04 I pray that you now remove from me every single defect of character which stands in the way of my usefulness to you and my fellows. Grant me strength as I go out from here to do your bidding. Amen. 12:18 We've then completed step seven. Two paragraphs, two steps. The logical question here is, like, is that what I have to pray to do step seven? Uh, I, I usually suggest it as at least a starting point. Mm-hmm. 12:36 Uh, but even the, the terminology here, we say something like this. So it's, it's again just like we did in the third step. Mm-hmm. It's a suggested prayer that puts the posture of what we're doing forefront. Right. 12:49 Um- What stands out to you in that prayer? I... A couple things here. So I don't know if we've used the term Creator- Mm-hmm... in one of these prayers yet. Mm. 13:04 Uh, but again, kinda to your point from last week or the week before where we got into the forgiveness- Mm-hmm... terminology for the first time, now we're using the, the term Creator. So we've had God, higher power. 13:19 We may have had maker somewhere. Mm-hmm. Now we've got creator. Um, so just a further posturing of, you know, he's the dir- that's what it was, the director. Yeah. He's the director. Yeah. It's not me anymore. 13:32 I'm merely a participant, a vessel- Mm-hmm... if you will. Yeah. So we've got posture there, I think, right? My creator too. Yeah. Not just the creator or a creator. Yeah. Personal. I think there's... 13:44 Yeah, there's something, um, there's a level of humility that's expressed in that statement. Absolutely. The second thing that sticks out to me 13:56 is this point that they make to the, this, this ending phrase, "I pray that you now remove from me every single defect of character," that's like the thrust of the step. Right. 14:04 Like, take away my defects, "which stands in the way of my usefulness to you and my fellows." The kinda reading between the lines mentality here is that, well, maybe some of that might be useful to him still. 14:21 And in fact, some reasons that he might not take it all away all at once is that he's bigger, he knows better. He'll use even my defects, even in sobriety- Mm-hmm... for his good. All things work together for His glory. 14:38 Um, and that, that phrasing just- Mm-hmm... it's always been a little quirk that's stuck out to me, and maybe I read too much into it. Um, but I, I think that the wording- Mm... is perhaps not accidental there. Sure. 14:51 Sure. Um, and, and I'll give you one more thing that- Mm-hmm... that was pointed out to me here, too, is, is we've got an amen at the end. Right. And we didn't in the third step, and these are two bookends to me. Right. 15:07 Right. Is we have this third step prayer of, "God, I offer myself to you." Mm-hmm. They're almost an invitation, a beginning, an initiation. "Build with me. Do with me as you will. 15:17 Relieve me of self, that I can do your will." Again, we're beckoning back to or hearkening back to, "Use me to do your will- Mm-hmm... um, as I go out from here to do your bidding," um, is, is how it does it in this one. 15:31 Yeah. But we've got two bookends- Mm... of we begin this process. We do some hard stuff in between with four and five, and now we sort of- Mm... bookend that prayer. Mm-hmm. 15:42 Not, not to leave it there, not like it's an end, but okay. Whew. Yeah. We're on the way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because what's next is some cleaning up. Right. Right. We've puked out. We're starting to fill up. 15:56 Now we're gonna go out and clean up. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah. And then hopefully continue, you know, rinse and repeat daily. Yeah. Yeah. Action-oriented. No, I like that. I, I, I think that's, um, that's clever. 16:09 Uh, that's a clever take on that. I think it's pretty applicable. Mm. Um, yeah, the other, the... I guess the phrase, part of the, part of this that stands out, um, all of me. Mm-hmm. Um, well, that's scary. Yeah. Um, 16:27 and you know, it, it does, it hearkens to the third step. It's sort of a reiteration of, like, all of it. You know, all of me. Um, and I think it's kind of interesting, too, sorta coupled with the idea of my creator. 16:41 Like, if God created me, I am, I am His, and it's just almost like giving yourself back- Mm-hmm... to the person who did create you. Again, this sort of, like, humility in there. 16:55 And then to pick up on what you were saying there, um, being useful to u- to, to God and to my fellows, suddenly it's, like, purposeful. 17:06 You're introduced to this, and we'll follow it up obviously with the 12th step, but this idea that all of this stuff isn't for you. Uh, it's for a bigger purpose. Um, and it's a bigger, part of a bigger plan. Mm-hmm. 17:19 Uh, and I think, like, that's the first, to me, it's sort of the first drilling down on that idea that, like, this is for a bigger... This isn't necessarily about me. It's not necessarily about you. 17:32 It's about the people that we will help. Um, introducing this idea of almost mission. Mm-hmm. Here's why, here's why you are changing. It's so that you can go out and help and be of service. 17:47 Um, so I think that's kind of a cool thing, too. I think of, uh, I've been crucified with Christ. Mm-hmm. I no longer live. He lives in me. Mm-hmm. If I now live in the body, I live by faith. Mm-hmm. 18:01 The Son of God who loved me gave Himself for me. Just this idea of almost- Mm-hmm... a, a concession here- Mm-hmm... if you will, that- Mm-hmm. Yeah... oh, yeah, what you said, that was yours all along. Right. 18:14 I guess I will concede to that point- Mm, mm... and start acting accordingly- Mm-hmm... to the best that I can, and equip me, please, so that I can do that. Right. 18:23 Um, because if, if, if we're, if we're on the beam here, and I sorta was when I did this the first time- Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm... but I wasn't thinking about it in this depth, either. Right. 18:34 Um, but, but we begin to line up and kinda start doing the switchbacks- [laughs] Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm... you know, on this trail. Mm-hmm. Uh, getting off, off-kilter here and there, but- Yeah... but beginning that process. 18:46 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's, it's, um, it's clever because the whole thing is just seems to be so missional. Mm-hmm. I mean, it's, it's so gospel rich and, like, gospel oriented, 19:01 that idea of change, you know, a, a spiritual experience that leads to change, but it's change with a purpose. It's not change so that you can sit and be quiet and go, "Ohm." Yeah. You know? Yeah. 19:15 It's change with, like, this missional attitude of, like, "Go therefore and make disciples. Baptizing them in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit." 19:23 It's the, it's like taking the experience that you've had and then taking it out there. Mm-hmm. Um, it's really kinda cool. I think that's, that's neat. [Instrumental music] Hey, thanks for listening. 19:34 You can find more info at progressandperfection.com, and we'll talk to you tomorrow.
