Transcript 0:00 Hey, welcome back to the Big Book Deep Dive here on Progress and Perfection. You can find more information on our website. You can contact us. All the links for that will be in the description below. My name is Eamon. 0:10 I'm joined by my good friend, John. Here we go. Now, about sex, many of us needed an overhauling there, but above all, we tried to be sensible on this question. It's so easy to get way off the track. 0:26 Here we find human opinions running to extremes, absurd extremes perhaps. One set of voices cry that sex is a lust of our lower nature, a base necessity of procreation. 0:38 Then we have the voices who cry for sex and more sex, who bewail the institution of marriage, who think that most of the troubles of the race are traceable to sex causes. They think we do not have enough of it, 0:51 or that it isn't the right kind. Well, that's interesting. [laughs] They see its significance everywhere. One school would allow man no flavor for his fare, and the other would have us all on a straight pepper diet. 1:04 It's interesting terminology that these guys are using, you know? Oh, yeah. We got, we got the old school. We want to stay out of this controversy. We do not want to be the arbiter of anyone's sex conduct. 1:14 We all have sex problems. We'd hardly be human if we didn't. What can we do about them? We reviewed our own conduct over the years past. Where had we been selfish, dishonest, or inconsiderate? Whom had we hurt? 1:28 Did we unjustifiably arouse jealousy, suspicion, or bitterness? Where were we at fault? What should we have done instead? We got this all down on paper and looked at it. So the same sort of routine there. 1:42 Yeah, to rinse and repeat here. We're doing the same thing, and just as a refresher, these are the common, what the Big Book says are the common manifestations of self. That's right. Self-centeredness. 1:52 So we talked about self-centeredness, self-centered fear. That's the root of the problem here. Mm-hmm. 1:57 And this is just one of those most common areas we can put our finger on it, and so we're putting it down, seeing where we were wrong, what could we do better, and m- we'll get later on into the making things right where appropriate. 2:10 Yep. In this way, we tried to shape a sane and sound ideal for our future sex life. We subjected each relation to this test. Was it selfish or not? We asked God to mold our ideals and help us to live up to them. 2:26 We remembered always that our sex powers were God-given and therefore good, neither to be used lightly or selfishly, nor to be despised and loathed. Uh, 2:39 that, um, that prayer there, we asked God to mold our, our ideals and help us to live up to them. Why do you think that's there? 2:50 Because this is probably the area that's easiest to allow our own selfishness to keep running the show. You know, the, and I've got written here kind of a one, two, three, four, five different points- Mm-hmm... 3:06 on, uh, what I've written in the margin as a test for my future relations. Mm-hmm. You know, so the one is what you just read, is this selfish or not? 3:14 Two is a prayer asking God, basically bringing the third step into this. Mm-hmm. God, you direct my thinking- Mm-hmm... my thoughts, and my actions. And then, um, a reminder that this is a good, you know, sex is good. 3:30 This is something that is God-given. Mm-hmm. And we get into our belief as Christians, it goes beyond the Big Book stuff, but- Mm-hmm... but it, by and large, this is a good thing. Mm-hmm. 3:40 Um, and then there's a couple more prayers we'll get to here in a minute, four and five. Mm-hmm. But yeah, I think we're just inviting God, again, specifically in this area, because it involves other people- Mm-hmm... 3:52 necessarily so- Right... to direct us away from selfishness toward God-centeredness- Mm-hmm... so we can, A, not cause harm, and B, be a fulfilling member in this partnership, in this union with others. Mm-hmm. 4:07 And that can apply, like, to any relationship, too, right? Mm-hmm. You know, not just, not just the sexual ones, but it's- Right... highlighted in, in what we're talking about- Right... here in that way. Right. 4:15 Yeah, and I think, like, for, you know, a lot of people, um, maybe myself included- Mm-hmm... you know, prior to sobriety, even prior to, like, conversion, uh, I didn't have any concept of sex, 4:32 uh, like God-ordained sex. Yeah. Um, you know, it was all, uh, um, taboo is the wrong term, but, you know, it was all selfish. It was all, you know, there was no such thing as healthy sexual relations. Right. 4:48 Uh, at least for me, and I think for a lot of people that step into sobriety, it's always been used as something for manipulation or coercion or selfishness or something, you know. 4:59 And so I think, like, it- it's an interesting, uh, practice to begin, especially in early sobriety, to be praying for right-mindedness- Mm-hmm... as it comes to sex and sexual relations. Um, you know, 'cause again, like, 5:17 pre-conversion, it's just this perverted view of sex, and I don't mean, like, perverted as in, like, fetishistic, but- No, just the wrong- But just- A wrong view. Yeah, right. 5:28 And so, like, what does it even mean to enter into a sexual relation- Mm-hmm... with, like, God present? Well, that sounds, you know, creepy. It sounds foreign. Right. 5:38 Um, but I think, like, as you and I, I would imagine, both have discovered, um, what a blessing it is to be able to unite with someone, uh, in a God-ordained way. Mm-hmm. 5:53 You know, just like it's saying, like, God gave us this, this, this, uh, opportunity to, to experience sex. Uh, and when it's, when it's done in a way that includes, like- You know, the Lord's provision, 6:07 it's transformative. Mm. And sometimes the first step in that is just the acknowledgement, uh, for ourselves that this is not just about us, but it's also about the other person. Yeah. 6:21 'Cause bringing God into it- Right... yeah, that is like, you know, what, what the heck does that mean? Mm-hmm. But the first step is just realizing it's not all about me. Mm-hmm. At the minimum, it's a 50/50 ordeal. 6:31 Mm-hmm. Right, yeah. And that it's good. Mm-hmm. It's not bad. It's not shameful. It's not, you know, it's not, it- Yeah... it, no, it's actually something that is good- Yeah... 6:43 and it's wholesome and it's pleasurable and it's joyful, and you're 100% right. When it's, like, entered into reciprocally, you experience it in a way that is not selfish. It becomes, like, selfless. 6:56 Uh, and just, like, it's interesting, [laughs] like, the whole process, you know, when it is a selfless process, you end up benefiting from it. Yeah. You know? 7:05 So again, it's this, like, inversion of the old self and how we used to think. "Whatever our ideal turns out to be, we must be willing to grow toward it. 7:14 We must be willing to make amends where we have done harm, provided that we do not bring about still more harm in so doing. In other words, we treat sex as we would any other problem. In meditation, we ask God 7:29 what we should do about each specific matter. The right answer will come if we want it. God alone can judge our sex situation. Counsel with persons is often desirable, but we let God be the final judge. 7:43 We realize that some people are as fan- fanatical about sex as others are loose. We avoid hysterical thinking or advice. Suppose we fall short of the chosen ideal and stumble. Does this mean we are going to get drunk? 7:58 Some people tell us so, but this is only a half-truth. It depends on us and our motives. If we are sorry for what we have done, 8:06 and have the honest desire to let God take us to better things, we believe we'll, we, we will be forgiven and will have learned our lesson. 8:14 If we are not sorry and our conduct continues to harm others, we are quite sure to drink. We are not theorizing. These are facts about our experience." Uh, I think that's really kind of, um, 8:29 this idea, "We believe we will be forgiven and will have learned our lesson," I mean, I feel like that's the first time that we have come across that type of concept- Hmm... in our reading- Yeah... 8:47 so far. It may be. The idea of confession- Mm-hmm... and forgiveness. Mm-hmm. Uh- Am I correct about that? It, I don't know for 100%, but I don't think we've talked about it straight out of the book yet. Uh-huh. 9:01 And it's, it's appropriately placed- Mm-hmm... you know, here as we're actually doing those first bits- Mm-hmm... of actual confession- Mm-hmm... or about to be doing so in the fifth step. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. 9:11 But I think it's interesting because the implication is that we, we have done something that needs to be forgiven- Mm. Mm-hmm... uh, which obviously, like- Mm-hmm... 9:20 I agree with as a believer, you agree with as a believer. Right. But I don't know. That's why when I read that, I was like, "Huh, that's interesting. I don't think we've read that yet." 9:29 Um- Like in thinking about our drinking in the preceding chapters- Mm-hmm... that hasn't, that terminology hadn't been used. Right, right, that, that, that, that there is something to be forgiven for. 9:39 Um, but suddenly here, there is this, this idea. I don't know. I think that's kinda interesting. Interesting. Interesting. I think you're right, like the timing isn't, isn't lost on me. Hmm. Um, 9:52 but yeah, that's interesting. Hmm. Hmm. I don't know. I don't know what to think about that. I don't know either. [laughs] Yeah, that's kinda... Yeah. And I've never realized that before. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. 10:07 Yeah, we've kinda taken for granted, uh, you know, when we get here that our drinking has caused problems. Mm-hmm. And I think we wanna hold on to victimhood a lot of the times- Mm-hmm... 10:17 in that, which prevents us from or, or probably encourage us to buck up against this type of thinking. Mm-hmm. Were it not for a, uh, pretty startlingly, startlingly obvious- Mm-hmm... 10:30 case where we've harmed other people- Mm-hmm... in, in this topic. Yeah. Yeah. [laughs] Yeah. Interesting. I'll have to think some more about that. [laughs] To be continued. 10:40 [laughs] "To sum up about sex, we earnestly pray for the right ideal, for guidance in each questionable situation, for sanity, and for the strength to do the right thing. 10:51 If sex is very troublesome, we throw ourselves the harder into helping others. We think of their needs and work for them. This takes us out of ourselves. It quiets the imperious urge when to yield would mean heartache. 11:06 If we have been thorough about our personal inventory, we have written down a lot. We have listed and analyzed our resentments. We have begun to comprehend their futility and their fatality. 11:18 We have commenced to see their terrible destructiveness. We have begun to learn tolerance, patience, and goodwill toward all men, even our enemies, for we look on them as sick people. 11:30 We have listed the people we have hurt by our conduct and are willing to straighten out the past if we can. In this book, you read again and again that faith did for us what we could not do for ourselves. 11:42 We hope you are convinced now that God can remove whatever self-will has blocked you off from Him. If you have already made a decision and an inventory of your grosser handicaps, you have made a good beginning. 11:55 That being so, you have swallowed, you have swallowed and digested some big chunks of truth about yourself." Uh, yeah, ag- again, like, that just strikes me as being very, um- Religious, 12:14 spiritual Oh, it is. It is Just, like, stumbling upon this idea of forgiveness- Mm-hmm... and then this sort of declaration, uh, you've read it again, that, "Faith did for us what we could not do for ourselves." 12:28 Um, and I think it's, uh, like you said earlier, I think it's well timed considering what this next, [laughs] what this next step is. Big time. 12:40 So says there what you just read, "If we've been thorough about this, we've written down a lot." Mm-hmm. How much is a lot? Do you have any guidelines or, or warning flags, uh, for half measures here? 12:58 Um, you know, it's so individual. Yeah. 13:05 Some people come to this as 65-year-olds who have lived a life of debauchery for 50 years, and so that list is exhaustive. A little bit more work. [laughs] You know what I mean? Yeah. 13:19 Um, some people come to this as, uh, as, uh, you know, this newer movement, like 20-year-olds. Their list may not be quite as exhaustive. Mm-hmm. But I guess the key word there is thorough. Yeah. 13:33 Um, and I guess the other key word there might be honest. Mm-hmm. You know, as long as we are being honest with ourselves in the thoroughness of the job we've done, I think that's good. Yeah, and I do too. I agree 100%. 13:49 Mm-hmm. It's, it's often, you know, you, you, you can almost skew sometimes when you're trying to do the right thing here into procrastination, trying to be perfect. 14:00 And so I would, I would offer that just from my perspective. Mm-hmm. When I first did this, I was one on the younger end of things, and it's like, well, you don't have to keep digging if you've been honest and thorough. 14:12 Right. And that was pointed out to me. It's like- Hmm, mm-hmm... you know, it's not gonna be perfect. Right. You're not gonna remember everything necessarily. That's, that's not the important part. Mm-hmm. 14:22 The important part is to go through one section, one step at a time, and pray about it. Mm-hmm. Honestly try to dig up what you can. Right. Get it down on paper, and be thorough. 14:33 Right And not specifically, it's the things we specifically leave out that- Right... that will get us. Right. And when we get into the fifth step- Right... 14:41 like that was, you know, I, I heard somebody say, "Do you wanna do the short version of the fifth step or the long version?" Hmm. 14:47 And the short version being just go ahead and skip to the stuff that you don't know if you're gonna tell me or not- Right... and get it out of the way and tell me. Right. Like, the, the, that's the shortcut to doing it. 14:57 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Um, and I, and I think the same- Mm-hmm... holds true here. Yeah. Just get, get it down. Yeah. The things that, don't, don't withhold knowingly. Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, bro, like, for sure. 15:08 I think, um, it's, it's just, I mean, we're human beings and we're flawed. We're not gonna get it perfect. 15:17 And after you get done and after you do your fifth step and all of a sudden it's a year later and you're like, "Oh, I totally forgot about this." Hmm. 15:23 You know, something comes up that reminds you of something that you've totally forgot, like. Yeah. All is not lost. That doesn't mean you didn't do it right. Hmm. It doesn't mean you suck. 15:30 It doesn't mean you're gonna drink. It means, like, "Wonderful, I'm gonna do that in my 10th step tonight." Absolutely. Yeah. You know? [laughs] I'm gonna, like- Yeah... 15:37 go through the little step and the little process, and I'm gonna clean this, clean this up. Yeah. Um, but I think, like, yeah, your, your, your point is well made as we will read here in chapter six. Um, 15:53 if that stuff sticks in the dark and never comes to light, it still has full potential to get you. Mm-hmm. You know, and it's exactly what you're referring to. And, and, and it's like I've said before, like, 16:10 it may be so dark that you don't feel comfortable sharing with your sponsor. Hmm. That's okay, but you gotta tell somebody. Yeah. [laughs] Like if it's a- It can't, it can't stay in the dark That's right. Yeah. 16:23 If it's a priest in confession. Mm-hmm. If it's a, if it's a professional where you got confidentiality as a, as a- Hmm... 16:30 guard, like whoever that needs to be, it's got to be pulled out and brought into the light or you still run this risk of having the shame and having the guilt come up and get you. You know? 16:47 Our se- our secrets keep us sick. Yep. I mean, that's, that's cliche for a reason- Mm-hmm... 'cause there's truth there. [laughs] Right. Right. It's one of those damn anecdotes, right? [laughs] Right. 16:57 [laughs] Those damn anecdotes of AA. Dang it. They're, sorry, bro, they're true. [laughs] It works if you work it. Fuck off. No, it's true, bro. [laughs] It's, it's the truth. Right? I promise. Think, think, think. 17:08 Shut up. [laughs] Nope, it's true. [laughs] You know? Keep coming back. Fuck off. [laughs] Nope, it's true. It's the truth, bro. Your secrets keep you sick. Oh. Go kick rocks. Nope, it's true. It's the truth. 17:23 [upbeat music] Hey, thanks for listening. You can find more info at progressandperfection.com, and we'll talk to you tomorrow.
