Transcript 0:00 Hey, welcome back to the Big Book Deep Dive here on Progress and Perfection. You can find more information on our website. You can contact us. All the links for that will be in the description below. My name is Amon. 0:10 I'm joined by my good friend, John. Here we go. All right. S- uh, chapter six, Into Action. Into it. Having made our personal inventory, what should we do about it? Hmm. 0:24 We have been trying to get a new attitude, a new relationship with our Creator, and to discover the obstacles in our path. We have admitted certain defects. We have ascertained in a rough way what the trouble is. 0:36 We have put our finger on the weak items in our personal inventory. Now these are about to be cast out. This requires action on our part, which when completed, will mean that we were... 0:50 that we have admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our defects. This brings us to the fifth step in the program of a recovery mentioned in the preceding chapter. 1:04 This is perhaps difficult, especially discussing our defects with another person. We think we have done well enough in admitting these things to ourselves. There is doubt about that. 1:15 In actual practice, we usually find a solitary self-appraisal insufficient. Many of us thought it necessary to go much further. 1:23 We will be more reconciled to discussing ourselves with another person when we see good reason why we should do so. The best reason first: if we skip this vital step, we may not overcome drinking. 1:38 Time after time, newcomers have tried to keep to themselves certain facts about their lives. Trying to avoid this humbling experience, they have turned to easier methods. Almost invariably, they got drunk. 1:50 Having persevered with the rest of the program, they wondered why they, why they fell. We think the reason is that they never completed their housecleaning. 1:58 They took inventory all right, but hung on to some of the worst items in stock. They only thought they had lost their egoism and fear. They only thought they had humbled themselves. 2:09 But they had not learned enough of humility, fearlessness, and honesty in the sense we find it necessary until they told someone else all their life story. Man, that's a- All of it... smack in the face right there. What? 2:23 I mean, that's a smack in the face. Yeah, it is. And it's there very specifically because everybody gets to this point- Mm. Mm-hmm... and thinks that they're unique in some way. Mm-hmm. 2:34 And they don't have to be thorough, like what we just talked about. We can leave one secret out there that we don't... It's too dark, don't wanna- Yep... talk about it. Yep. Whatever. Yep. 2:43 We don't, or don't even wanna do the whole thing to begin with. It's good enough to just write it down. That's, I think, the most common difficulty. Mm. It's like, "Oh, I've done my fourth step." Mm-hmm. 2:52 As though that's the accomplishment. Right. Right. It's like, this is where the rubber starts- Right... meeting the road. Right. Yeah. Is g- is doing the fourth, and then getting it out. Right. 3:02 It's like puking, but then holding it in your mouth. Why does that work? Well, uh, that's a great question. 'Cause I really wish that this would work between me and God- Mm-hmm... sometimes. Right. 3:16 Uh, but, uh, you know, if you wanna go to the real core of what I believe- Mm. Mm... I think it's because this is just how God designed things. Mm. 3:25 And He designed us the same way that the fellowship of AA works, same way that the community and fellowship of the church works, is supposed to work. Is that He designed us to be in community with each other. Mm-hmm. 3:38 Not separated into our own little isolated silos of, you know, I can do my thing here and interact with you at arm's length. Mm-hmm. Uh, it's, it's... We're just designed this way. Mm-hmm. 3:52 And, and part of that design is this, this very sacred act- Mm... of being able to confess. Mm-hmm. And that can look like just sponsor/sponsee relationship. 4:04 To your point, sometimes it needs to be professional relationship, uh, in these times of confession. Mm-hmm. But there is a purifying aspect of doing such a simple thing- Right... as just me telling you 4:21 this thing about- Yep... myself. Yep. Um, and, and we hype it up like it's, "Ugh, I can't do it." Mm-hmm. But, but at the- Mm-hmm... the heart of it- Mm-hmm... it's part of our design, and it really is simple. Right. 4:34 Right. It's just difficult to get started. Right. So can this confession, this life story, the telling of your, your life story, is it to anybody? 4:47 It, it's super helpful if it can be the person who you are actively working through the steps with, because that helps inform how we approach the amend process. Mm-hmm. 4:57 Um, it's helpful to walk through the whole steps with a person so that they can get to know you, and visa versa. Vice versa? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Um, so that... 5:07 It's not required, I wouldn't say, but, but it's real helpful when that can just be simply the case. Yep. Yep. Yeah, so I think, um, I think you're, you're, 5:18 you're spot on with that, that idea of, like, existing in community. Um, you know, sharing your burdens and, like, having your brothers and sisters in Christ help carry those burdens for you. I think there's also 5:34 something that occurs when you experience, like, radical acceptance with another brother. Yeah. When it's not just the me too piece, 5:51 but it's this idea of like... Because the fear is like, if you knew me, if you really knew me- Yeah. Then you wouldn't, you wouldn't like me... you wouldn't like me. You wouldn't accept me. Right. 5:59 You would reject me Um, and that's the core fear there, is that I'm so inadequate and I'm so inferior and I'm so unworthy of being loved by someone else that if you really knew who I was, that, that would be proven true. 6:12 Mm. And it offers you this opportunity to be fully known, fully known to another human being and having them love you in return. Mm-hmm. And like give you a hug and let you know that you're not alone. You know? 6:28 And so I think like it's a, it's this, it's this double, this double blessing that you end up receiving. Not just someone to share those burdens, but somebody to reassure you that like you are lovable. 6:43 You are in fact lovable, uh, despite all the horrid things that you've done. Mm-hmm. Uh, so yeah, I think, I think like not anybody, not anybody can give that to you. Mm. 6:55 I think that's why like iron sharpens iron and like we do this as from one addict to another. [laughs] Yeah. You know? [laughs] Yeah. Because like we get it, you know? There's, there's, there's, 7:07 we've been down to the depths of that hole. We've experienced that darkness and that depression. We understand how when you're down there in that pit, anything is, is possible. Uh, and everything seems permissible. Mm. 7:21 And, and, and I think like, yeah, it's tough to tell that to someone who hasn't been down there because there's lots of fear that's attached to that. You know? I ain't just gonna go tell Jimmy Joe at church- Yeah... 7:35 all my dark secrets 'cause he could potentially be like, "What the fuck?" Yeah. "What is wrong with you?" Yeah. Like, "I can't believe you, dude." And that's all it takes is that one little eyebrow raise- Yep... 7:46 or that one just, "Oh my God," to make you feel like, yep. Yep. There it is. See ya. I knew it. I knew it. I'm full of shit. I can't. I'm unlovable. I'm absolutely unlovable. 7:56 Um, so yeah, man, I think it's just this beautiful opportunity to be fully known and fully like accepted by another human being- Mm... that becomes just so transformative and so restorative and so powerful, you know? 8:10 "More than most people, the alcoholic leads a double life. He is very much the actor. To the outer world, he presents his stage character. This is the one he likes his fellows to see. 8:24 He wants to enjoy a certain reputation, but knows in his heart he doesn't deserve it. The inconsistency is made worse by the things he does on his sprees. 8:33 Coming to his senses, he is revolted at certain episodes he vaguely remembers. These memories are a nightmare. He trembles to think someone might be ob- might have observed him. 8:44 As fast as he can, he pushes these memories far inside himself. He hopes they will never see the light of day. He is under constant fear and tension. That makes for more drinking. 8:57 Psychologists are inclined to agree with this. We have spent thousands of dollars for examinations. We know but few instances where we have given these doctors a fair break. 9:07 We have seldom told them the whole truth, nor have we followed their advice. Unwilling to be honest with these sympathetic men, we were honest with no one else. 9:16 Small wonder many in the medical profession have a low opinion of alcoholics and their chance for recovery." Let me just say as a member of the professional community that, uh, no, that's not true, bro. Yeah. 9:28 Maybe back in the day that was true. That, that's become a dated statement right there. Yeah. But that's, that's not true. We, like, um, I mean- The-... uh, I don't know, man. Yep. 9:37 I, I, I don't wanna sound like I'm just trying to defend my, my profession, but I think that so many of us- No, I, I think that's fair to bring up and- Sure... and retort. Yeah. 9:45 That, that would be maybe one of the things I would co-sign for a, a rewrite- Yeah... uh, here. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I appreciate that. Indeed. I appreciate that my man. Indeed. [laughs] I appreciate that. 9:54 "We must be entirely honest with somebody if we expect to live long or happily in this world. 10:03 Rightly and naturally we think well before we choose the person or persons with whom to take this intimate and confidential step. 10:10 Though of, those of us belonging to a religious denomination which requires confession must and of course will want to go to the properly appointed authority whose duty it is to receive it. 10:23 Though we have no religious connection, we may still do well to talk with someone ordained by an established religion. We often find such a person quick to see and understand our problem. 10:34 Of course, we sometimes encounter people who do not understand alcoholics. If we cannot or would rather not do this, we search for, we search our acquaintance for a close, close-mouthed understanding friend. 10:47 Perhaps our doctor or psychologist will be the person. It may be one of our own family, but we cannot disclose anything to our wives or our parents which will hurt them and make them unhappy. 10:59 We have no right to save our own skin at another person's expense. Such parts of our story we tell to someone who will understand, yet be unaffected. The rule is we must be hard on ourself, but not..." 11:12 But, oh, excuse me. "The rule is we should [laughs] we must be hard on ourself, but always considerate of others." Uh, I, I mean, okay, so that's kinda dangerous there, let me just say. 11:26 Uh, it may be one of our own family. Yeah. Uh- No. I'll go ahead and say- [laughs] Okay, there you, yeah... I'll go ahead and say it- Yeah... may not be. 11:35 [laughs] I would be like, "Nah, I don't think it should be anybody in your family." No. Um- That sounds like bad advice. 11:42 [laughs] Well, and I think it, it's gonna continue on to that vein in the next paragraph too, but- Yeah... but absolutely not. 11:49 This is another dated part where it may have been more difficult to find s- someone, to your point, who can be empathetic and non-affected. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That is not the case today. No. 12:02 In the same way that you can walk into an AA meeting at any, literally any time, day or night- Yep. Mm-hmm... either in person or online and find empathetic... uh, individuals. 12:14 You can easily find someone in the rooms with whom you can do this. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and not, not to even count professional help and, and religious health. Yeah. Yeah. And let me just say also, like, I mean, 12:29 I don't know. You can tell me I'm wrong. Um- You're wrong But, uh, dang it. But, like, even when it comes to the wives thing, like, we know our wives love us- Mm... 12:41 but there are, there are certain things, just like we can't unsee in our experience- Yeah... our wives can't unhear. Right. 12:49 And, it, just like it says there, like, it's- it's, uh, it's kind of a very inconsiderate if not, like, unfair thing to just give our wives a bomb- Yeah. It's not-... 13:00 just to make ourselves feel better It's not okay to dump that we can feel better. Right. Right. 13:05 And, and in the instances where it may be a borderline that, that it's something they might need to know, well, just freaking run it by somebody else first. That's right. That's right. And make, make sure. That's right. 13:16 You know, 'cause that's, that's a relationship you need to protect above all else. Yeah. I've seen many- [coughs]... well-intended confessions- Yeah, yeah... to wives go absolutely south. Yeah. 13:30 Uh, and it's not the idea of like, "Oh, you, you're gonna hide it from your wife." No, that's not- Mm-hmm... 13:35 the point, but I think there's a certain amount of discretion that should be had, 'cause yeah, I mean, our, you know, there's, just like I said, they can't unhear things. Yep. Um, just like we can't unsee 'em. 13:46 You are not wrong, my friend. Notwithstanding the great necessity for discussing ourselves with someone, it may be one is so situated that there is no suitable person available. 13:57 If that is so, this step may be postponed, only, however, if we hold ourselves in complete readiness to go through with it at the first opportunity. 14:07 We s- we say this because we are very anxious that we talk to the right person. 14:12 It is important that he be able to keep a confidence, that he fully understand and approve what we are driving at, that he will not try to change our plan. But we must not use this as a mere excuse to postpone. 14:25 Just like you were saying. Exactly. Mm. When we decide who it is to hear our story, we waste no time. Ha ha ha, we waste no time. Right, bro. They're always telling us, "Next, next." Right, right. "Do this now." 14:36 Right, right. Uh, we waste no time. We have a written inventory, and we are prepared for a long talk. We explain to our partner what we are about to do and why we have to do it. 14:48 He should realize that we are engaged upon a life-and-death errand. Most people approached in this way will be glad to help. They will be honored by our confidence. 14:57 Yeah, and I think that kinda takes care of itself with the, um, yeah, I, I get it. Like, out there, you purists, it doesn't talk about sponsorship, but I think, like, it covers that base for us. [baby babies] Hey. Hey. 15:09 [baby laughs] Oh. All right. Well said. That sounds great. We'll see you later. I like that. That's a good conclusion. [laughs] Um, hey. [laughs] [baby babies] [baby talks] Bye. Bye. Bye. 15:25 [baby cries] Um, I love your kids. They're awesome. Uh, where was I? I lost it. Because you realize you're engaged in a life and, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. The, uh, yeah, sponsorship. Right? Sponsorship takes care of that. 15:43 Oh, yeah. Because, like- Totally... we get it. Totally. Yeah, it's very rare you're gonna run into somebody who's like, "Huh? You wanna do what?" 15:49 No, you just, like you were saying earlier, you've already got a relationship. You're already working through the steps with somebody. It's just the natural person- Yep... uh, that, that you should turn to. Yep. 15:59 We pocket our pride and go to it, illuminating every twist of character, every dark cranny of the past. Once we have taken this step, withholding nothing, we are delighted. We can look the world in the eye. 16:12 We can be alone at perfect peace and ease. Our fears fall from us. We begin to feel the nearness of our creator. We may have had certain spiritual beliefs, but now we begin to have a spiritual experience. 16:26 The feeling that the drink problem has disappeared will often come strongly. We feel we are on the broad highway, walking hand-in-hand with the spirit of the universe. Bro, that's quite a promise. Is that how you felt? 16:39 Bill, uh- After you did your fifth, fifth step? Bill knows how to write every now and then. Well- He'll, he'll bring his Bill flourishes in here. I can see him with his calligraphy pen and all- Whoa... penning this. 16:50 No, that's not how I felt. [laughs] Me neither. [laughs] Thank you. And, a- and some people do feel- Mm-hmm... 16:56 you know, enormous relief and, and talking with somebody this week actually who shared similar to this experience- Mm-hmm... after the fifth step. Mm-hmm. And it was just this huge weight off of them. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. 17:07 Um, it was not for me. I mean, I, I remember doing it in a setting much like this room- Mm-hmm... just hanging out with my sponsor over at his house. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. 17:15 Dog running around crazy while we were talking, and I told him my story- Right... and it was a story, so it was a conversation, and then we went through my list, the paperwork that I had done- Mm, mm-hmm... 17:24 and we looked for my part in it primarily was our purpose. And then he gave me directions that we'll go over for six and seven on the next podcast. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. And sent me on my way. Mm-hmm. 17:35 And I pulled out of there and out of the driveway and was like, "Well, I guess that was the right thing to do." Mm. And I felt a, I did feel relief in that I knew I was doing the right things. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. 17:47 And I, I was just taking one more step on this road of sobriety that I was trudging, and, and trudging is to walk with purpose. Yeah. It's not to, like, sprint and be victorious. True, true. It's to walk with purpose. 18:01 Right. And that day was, you know, it was, it was a momentous day in that it was a big step to get out of the way. Yep. But it wasn't like the end of confession. It wasn't like, uh, you know, fireworks going off. 18:14 It was just I did the next right thing. So does that mean that we did it wrong? 'Cause these are the promises that- Yeah, right... the book makes to us- Yeah. Well, what did I not do right?... 18:23 if when we do this fifth step. [laughs] No. I mean, I've, I've spoken with all kinds of people that, you know, it seems to be maybe it skews a little more towards what's in the book- Mm-hmm... 18:34 but it's almost 50/50 the people that I've spoken with. Mm-hmm. Some it's like great, some it's like me. It's just like, "Oh, whatever." You know, I, I believe I was thorough and honest. 18:44 There were a couple things that I went back, kinda like what you said, later on. It's like, "Oh, man, I, I forgot about this." Mm-hmm. It's like, "Oh, okay." Mm-hmm. "Anything else?" [laughs] It's like, "No." "Okay." 18:54 Right. Right. Um- Yeah, I just... I, I mean, I agree with you 100%. I don't think that means you did it wrong. Yeah. I don't think it means I did it wrong. I don't think it means that the people out there did it wrong. 19:03 Yeah. I think it's just a difference in personality. Big time, yeah. You know, I think some people feel that sort of just exactly what he's talking about- Yeah... in that moment. Um, and you can understand why. 19:14 If you've, if you are unfamiliar with the process, if you're unfamiliar with the Lord, if you're unfamiliar with the idea of confession and repentance- Yeah. If this is the first time for all of this stuff, sure. 19:23 Yeah, brother, you probably are gonna feel- Knock your, knock your socks off. Yeah, it probably is gonna feel, like, incredibly amazing. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, but yeah, I, I, I don't think it's a... 19:34 I don't think it's quite as a necessary- [clears throat]... feeling as was drilled into my head- Mm-hmm... after you do it So it was for you- Mm-hmm... pre-game. It's like, "Oh, what have I done wrong?" Yeah. 19:50 But yeah, I mean- 'Cause I'm supposed to feel this way... these were the promises. Bro, I got it written. Yeah. Promises. Here are the promises. [laughs] I know. That's what I said too. Right? You got it on yours too? 19:56 Fifth, fifth step, immediate promises is what I have written. [laughs] Oh, right. Right. You know, but that's what I... Yeah, I think that's like, you know, I mean, I get it, but I don't, I don't... Hmm. Yeah. 20:07 I don't know. It's, it's, it's another one of those places where I'm like, "Hmm, good. If that, if that's how it feels for you, then wonderful, but that doesn't necessarily mean you did it wrong." Yeah. You know? 20:17 And, and I, I, I totally agree. And you know, I used to not even read... You know, we read on one episode all of Bill's story. Mm-hmm. And I'm glad we did. I used to not even read that with people. Yeah. 20:28 There was a time where I, I would tell them, "You know, this is between you and Bill if you wanna read it." Yeah. "You know, this is his story. What got you here is your story." 20:36 Um, and, and I think sometimes in some of our literature, there's some overwriting that brings into the book his own experience with things- Yeah... that are not universal. Yeah. Yeah. 20:50 And I don't think they're bad, you know. Yeah. But, but I think some of that bleeds into this. Yeah. Well, and look, dude, I mean, okay, so here we go. Controversy. You can bleep this out if you want to. Bleep, bleep. 21:01 Uh, but I mean, it's pretty well established that Bill was on psychedelics when he had his spiritual- Yeah... uh, experience, and he had a spiritual awakening. Yep. 21:12 Which anybody out there who's done psychedelics, I'm not saying pro or con, but if you've done them before, you can see how he would land with language like this. Yeah. Um, 21:22 because there is just this, this other, like, [laughs] I don't know, layer that's added- Mm-hmm... to the experience- Yeah... um, when you, when you put that piece in there. Yeah. So you can bleep that out. 21:33 You can keep it in. I don't care whatever you do. So you're telling me I should have done this- Whatever you do. [laughs]... on mushrooms- On mushrooms... microdosing? No, that's not what I'm saying. 21:42 [laughs] You know, different strokes for different folks. No. No, no. But, like, I mean, I, I think you and I can bear witness that it doesn't have to be, uh, in that, in that, in that, um, 21:53 with that piece added to it, but I think that's where some of the, uh, maybe, uh, flowery-ness is too strong a term, some of the hyperbole, I would say- Sure... uh, comes in- Sure... is because for him it, it- It was... 22:09 literally was like, "Whoa," [laughs] you know? Yeah. Yeah. This rock solid kind of experience. 22:13 And, you know, hi- his background, I'm, I'm not huge into the history of, his personal history, but coming from a less spiritual starting point- Correct... may I put, than I was. Correct. Um, so- Correct... 22:28 a lot of the Big Book for me, from just the background that I grew up in, this is just restating the obvious. Right. And I walked away from it. Yeah. Yeah, big time. 22:39 But coming back to, this is like spiritual kindergarten, [laughs] you know- Right. Right... in many ways. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Not to, not to put it down in any way. Mm-hmm. 22:45 That's great for what it is, but it was just restating what had been embedded in me before I turned aside from it. Yeah. Yeah. And so I, I think necessarily I couldn't have that first time epiphany- That's right... 22:58 type of moment with it. That's right. That's right. No, well put. "Returning home, we find a place where we can be quiet for an hour." Do we wanna cut it there, though? Uh, well, let's finish this one- Perfect... 23:09 paragraph. Okay. Top of 76 is, uh, step six. Gotcha. "Returning home, we find a place where we can be quiet for an hour." Does it have to be an hour? [laughs] Set your timer. Set the timer. 23:22 Uh, "Carefully reviewing what we have done, we thank God from the bottom of our heart that we know Him better. Taking this book down from our shelf, we turn to the page which contains the 12 steps. 23:33 Carefully reading the first five proposals, we ask if we have omitted anything, for y- we are building an ark through which we shall walk a free man at last. Is our work solid so far? Are the stones properly in place? 23:48 Have we skimped on the cement put into the foundation? Have we tried to make mortar without sand?" Dun, dun. Dun. For the answer to these questions- Tune in next week... and- Same bat time, same bat place. 24:05 [laughs] Yeah. Uh, I think the point there is- [clears throat]... is just, like, that idea of, of taking a moment to reflect on what you have just done. Yeah. 24:16 And it really does, it drills down on the significance when you do it right, the significance of what you have just done. Yeah. 24:24 And I'd, uh, uh, yeah, I may not have the flowery feeling up here, but that line there, um, that we know Him better- Mm-hmm... uh, I think is 100% true because- Yeah... we've removed the barrier between me and the Lord. 24:43 It's been removed by this, this confession, and, and repentance, and acceptance of Christ's work on my behalf. Mm-hmm. 24:50 So it, how could it not produce a more, uh, a closer relationship with God when done in the right spirit? Honest, thorough, with an actual other human being. That's right. 25:05 So did you put your book up on the shelf so that you could then take it down off of the shelf? Uh, I, I, I did not. [laughs] I did not, and I don't think I took an hour. Yeah. 25:14 [laughs] I think I took a nice period of time, but I don't think it was an hour. I, I, I think an hour would be overstating it for me too. Yeah. Yeah. 25:21 I definitely took a moment, and prayed, and thanked the Lord for this opportunity to be able to just feel free and clear, and 25:29 to allow Him to, like, come to mind and come to presence, and, and, and, um, sort of give me the assurance that I needed- Yeah... to proceed to step six. Yeah. 25:43 'Cause, yeah, I mean, I think what we will find is, honestly, um, as difficult as steps one through five are, the amends thing is tough. Mm-hmm. The amends thing was tough. Yeah. But we'll get there next week. 25:59 Always a pleasure. Likewise. [upbeat music] Hey, thanks for listening. You can find more info at progressimperfection.com, and we'll talk to you tomorrow.
